Author Topic: Wheels  (Read 1591 times)

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Offline JD

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Wheels
on: October 11, 2020, 06:27:58 PM
I recall reading somewhere that the wheel fitment for the ZH2 is equivalent to the ZX10? And if so, I can buy aftermarket wheels that fit the ZX10 for my bike. Can anyone confirm this?
When I was changing my tire last week, I weighed the rear  wheel, sprocket and disc only at 22.7 lbs. If I could shave almost 20 lbs of unsprung weight by changing the wheels it may be worth the cost. Wheels, plus the carbon can would put me well under 500 total weight. I am more concerned with reducing weight and upgrading susp than chasing horsepower
Last Edit: October 11, 2020, 06:31:58 PM by JD
Life is short.. better ride fast

#1

Offline oldkawboy

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Re: Wheels
Reply #1 on: October 12, 2020, 02:00:52 AM
I know BST just came out with their carbon fiber wheels for the Z H2 so I'm thinking they must be different from the ZX10R.
I'm not sure though.....

I'm hoping to get a set for my Z H2. I have cf wheels on my ZX14 and Z900RS and am a VERY big fan of their performance advantage and looks.
Brock now has them listed on his website.



Dan

#2

Online Wavshrdr

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Re: Wheels
Reply #2 on: October 12, 2020, 03:53:38 AM
I am a big fan of CF wheels for the track. Can't say I am on the street so much. I have seen a few catastrophically fail and can't say I'd ever want that to happen to a bike I am riding. Doesn't help I am a bigger guy so likely stressing them more. I am all for less unsprung weight and the advantages it has. Leaning more toward Dymag instead of CF.

Here is an interesting read on using CF wheels on the street. I suggest reading through some of the comments as well.
https://www.motorcycle.com/features/carbon-fiber-wheels-and-a-trip-to-the-moon.html

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Offline icancin2u2

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Re: Wheels
Reply #3 on: October 12, 2020, 05:23:34 AM
Thanks for sharing the article. I didn't know the resin they use (maybe it has been fixed since the article??) is subject to degradation due to UV light. Also, consider that resin is the only thing keeping you upright. Wow, what an eye opener. I never considered ordering CF wheels as the price of admission is prohibitive for me. But, it has forced me to consider how the product is constructed. Yes, lighter wheels would be fantastic, but not at the expense of my future.

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Offline oldkawboy

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Re: Wheels
Reply #4 on: October 12, 2020, 01:17:40 PM
That's the great thing about aftermarket wheels, you can buy forged aluminum, magnesium, carbon fiber, etc. If someone doesn't feel comfortable about cf there is other options for having lighter weight.
My son's and I drag race and run Land Speed events and like many, many other racers our choice is cf. I ride both of my "race" bikes with carbon wheels on the street as do my boys and living at the foot of Deals Gap
gives us the opportunity to ride the twisties hard.
One time I watched a ZX10R get dragged up the side of the mountain over 100' with a tow truck using a strap around the front cf wheel with no damage. Anytime, anything can happen but we have confidence in cf wheels or we sure wouldn't be riding them over 200mph.
I also have a set of Dymags (mag) and Marchesinis (fa) on other bikes and love them but for weight, cf can't be beat.

I'm wanting to lighten my Z H2 up for street and track that's why I'll be going with the BST's.

Dan

#5

Online Wavshrdr

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Re: Wheels
Reply #5 on: October 12, 2020, 03:01:14 PM
The article hopefully will help people understand that CF wheels aren't just install and forget. With something so critical, it pays to do periodic inspection. You do realize there have been no long term studies to see how these CF holds up over time. CF itself will last forever, but the resins can be the real weak link. Even in the aircraft industry, there haven't been any longterm studies of how well some of the materials will hold up, especially under less than ideal conditions.

I would consider the road a far worse environment than the track. A lot more crap to contend with. I know I won't affect oldkawboy but here is an interesting excerpt from an article discussing litigation about CF bicycle products failing in use.

"Wrecks happen from faulty aluminum, steel, and even rock-hard titanium. The difference with carbon fiber is that it can be difficult to detect signs of damage that might signal imminent failure. Cracks and dents in other materials are typically easy to see, but fissures in carbon fiber often hide beneath the paint. What’s worse is that when carbon fiber fails, it fails spectacularly. While other materials might simply buckle or bend, carbon fiber can shatter into pieces, sending riders flying into the road or trail. And this kind of catastrophic destruction can happen to any part of a bike made with the material."

That is the problem with CF. it is fine until all of a sudden it isn't. Then it fails catastrophically. Just because you can't see the damage, doesn't mean it isn't there. CF is stronger, lighter, yada yada yada, when it is new, and unblemished. As an engineer, I get all the benefits. I would treat CF wheels on the street as something disposable (though terrible for landfills and can't easily recycle them) and replace them fairly frequently, barring that, an incredibly robust inspection program. Running them 60k miles in a year is different than running them 60k miles over 5 years. Once the resin starts breaking down, your wheels are toast. Most likely when they fail, you are going to have a trip to the hospital or morgue.

Not to mention how careful you have to be mounting them. Ducati is pretty detailed about how to handle CF wheels on their bikes.
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10178058-0001.pdf

For me the risk isn't worth it. If I did run them on my bike, I'd be sending them out to have them thoroughly inspected at every tire change. Again my concern isn't when they are new but when they age. Also many racing bodies don't allow them on the track. Which begs the question, if they are so safe, and so wonderful, why aren't they allowed?

#6

Offline oldkawboy

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Re: Wheels
Reply #6 on: October 12, 2020, 03:23:45 PM
Fortunately that's what makes this ol' world so good, if we all agreed on everything it'd be a boring place.
I do however agree with a lot of what you have stated and by not being an engineer I can't possibly have the knowledge of some things like yourself but BST and other companies that make cf wheels do have engineers and I trust them.
I would never expect the wheels to have a lifetime use nor would I say that.
To me they are like helmets, just cost more!
Thanks for taking the time to voice your opinion, it's good to be able to disagree and not get our panties in a wad.
Dan

#7

Online Wavshrdr

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Re: Wheels
Reply #7 on: October 12, 2020, 06:44:40 PM
My thoughts exactly, we can agree to disagree. My life isn't worth saving a few pounds on a wheel.

Unfortunately I've experience catastrophic failures while riding and as the saying goes, there but for the grace of God go I. I've dodged more of those bullets than I'd ever want, and even 1 is more than you should have to deal with. I'll just say it has to be a miracle that I am still alive and most of my appendages work.

I am glad to live vicariously through the experience of others and their CF wheels. I've ridden on them and love them from a performance perspective. I'll go part of the way with Dymag and keep a metal wheel. I'll take deformation over catastrophic destruction.

#8

Offline JD

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Re: Wheels
Reply #8 on: October 12, 2020, 06:59:33 PM
mclaren has been building cars with carbon fiber monocoque bodies since 1981 :027:
Life is short.. better ride fast

#9

Online Wavshrdr

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Re: Wheels
Reply #9 on: October 12, 2020, 07:07:16 PM
Wheel and chassis are different things. Stresses are different. Wheels take a lot more direct impacts. Chassis have the shocks reduced by the suspension. To paraphrase, wheels are where the rubber meets the road. Wheels/tires take the brunt of most impacts. They are exposed directly to all the crap on the roads. You get the idea I hope, it is sort of an apples to oranges comparison.

Even then, google about all the CF bicycle frame and wheel issues.  Did you know Ford put a layer of ceramic coating on their CF wheels to prevent the heat from the brakes impacting them? Heat is another enemy of CF.